Summary
Dr. C.J. Meadows examines how AI is changing the consultant's role and the traditional models for hiring, training and career progression. Consultants are moving from doing analysis toward helping clients frame problems and make better decisions, and while AI can automate analysis, it cannot replace creativity, lateral thinking or cross-domain judgement.
Key insights
- Problem framing, judgement and storytelling are the skills that matter now.
- Consulting career models are under pressure from AI.
- AI consulting differs from traditional models in what clients pay for.
- In-house and internal consulting roles are growing in importance.
- Organisational and behavioural change remain the core of AI adoption.
Full transcript
Automatically generated from the episode audio and lightly edited. About 3,000 words.
AI isn't changing how consultants work, it's redefining what it means to be a consultant. Welcome to Alt-Consulting Conversations where we explore how consulting is being reinvented for the AI era. Each episode brings together leaders who have seen this transformation from every side as consultants, educators and innovators shaping what's next to come. guest today is Dr. CJ Meadows, one of Asia's top 10 women in IT and head of innovation and entrepreneurship center. at SP Jain School of Global Management, a Forbes Top 20 International Business ⁓ She's the head of global MBA program for consulting management.
Doctor's work sits at the intersection of technology, business strategy and design thinking. She's an author, speaker and a passionate innovator with 25 years of experience across Asia, Europe and North America. Doctor, it's such a pleasure to have you on Alt-Consulting Conversations.
It is lovely to be here. Thank you for having me.
You sit at the intersection of innovation, consulting and education. So how do you see AI changing the consulting industry itself?
You know, even deeper than that, I sit at the intersection ⁓ ⁓ design and business strategy. ⁓ ⁓ we're seeing now ⁓ that ⁓ technologies, ⁓ they usually do, ⁓ ⁓ strategies, ⁓ business models, totally new capabilities. And we need to design for that not only the business models, ⁓ the offerings. ⁓
Right. And when you when you're leading the consulting management program at SP Jain shaping the next generation of ⁓ how are these students being taught differently ⁓ Given the lot of changes we have seen in terms of AI coming and ⁓ the work with junior consultants used to do quite So what new skills in your opinion have become essential and which traditional ones, if I may so, are losing a bit of relevance?
You know... We particularly train and, no, even more. Training is education to do the thing you were trained to do. So we've been shifting more and more towards real education, really focusing on helping people learn how to learn, do completely new things.
We are helping people learn a lot of AI skills, ⁓ ⁓ its core, at the front end and the back end is asking really good questions, which was never as much, it didn't receive as much attention in education earlier, and evaluating what comes back. Now you'll need some experience, some heuristics, some judgment in order to evaluate. ⁓ ⁓ know, ⁓ companies are not hiring junior consultants, ⁓ Problem is, how are they going to develop the judgment, get the experience, all that sort of stuff? So we're stepping in to give them experience with real projects, real companies, like UBS, Google, Microsoft, Dell, all kinds of folks, that they get the AI tools, ⁓ learn how to frame the problems and ask right questions. how to evaluate the results and refine them, how to present those well so that what they're saying is compelling. And part of what I do in particular in design thinking and innovation is help them learn to listen.
When you with them and your students who have just joined the ⁓ MBA program, those who might have just graduated, what kind of career shifts are you seeing? You know, there are people who want to become consultant, but the ⁓ route to has changed a bit. You know, you ⁓ and as are saying that you are teaching them new skills on how to frame the problem. So what are some questions that you're hearing from students and what are the career shifts that you're seeing?
Well, big question on everybody's mind right now is, I going to be able to get a job? A lot of companies are not hiring the junior level, or at least not as much as they were. ⁓ ⁓ know, and a lot of people might think, Ok, ⁓ I more qualifications and better grades so that I can compete ⁓ what always done. I think that's always a bad idea, ⁓ losing idea. ⁓ compete by not competing, by offering something new ⁓ different, something unique that people actually want. I also seeing a lot of interest ⁓ in... ⁓ students who want to learn consulting skills but want to go into traditional corporations because basically they need to be consultants internally. ⁓ A lot of companies don't want to spend the big dollars on those consulting projects but they want their people to act like consultants.
A lot of people are wanting to become entrepreneurs or scale up their family businesses. A lot of them also ⁓ up becoming solopreneurs ⁓ ⁓ founders ⁓ ⁓ some of those ⁓ AI and other ⁓ like agentic AI too. ⁓
When I sort of I'll move on to companies now. So you're telling about, know, companies are hiring for different skills. They are looking for consulting knowledge within their organization, not necessarily outsource it to a consulting service provider. But when you look at consulting firms themselves and you have worked at Accenture, how do you see AI?
Because there is an argument which people are making.
Mm-hmm.
that hey, AI is just a productivity tool. Yes, it's sustaining innovation. We have seen a lot of these changes. We had ⁓ Excel macros. had, once upon a time, OHPs, which moved to PowerPoint slides.
So AI is one more productivity tool. And that's absolutely right to say in certain consulting practices. But in others, you might argue that, hang on, it's not just a productivity tool, but... It might be something more profound.
It might challenge the core operating model, the business model of the What are your thoughts on that?
You know, I had an old friend who was a partner at BCG. And he said to me a few years back, you know, things have really, really changed. You know who's our top competitor now? I'm like, McKinsey, Bain, know, the usual suspects.
He said, Google. like,
⁓
⁓ wait, wait, wait, what, why? He said, you know, it used to be our bread and butter was the market study. So we would send minimum three people out for minimum. a month and I will not tell you the price that he quoted me but it was pretty significant and he said now there's so much information sloshing around that clients themselves can go get it themselves using Google and other tools. So I think what we're seeing is that AI and especially GenAI and soon, Agentic ⁓ are ⁓ clients to do some things ⁓ ⁓ they won't necessarily ⁓ asking the right ⁓ they won't necessarily understand what the problem is or that they have the problem wrong.
That was a key skill in the old days in consulting to sit down with a client and not take the assignment from them where they tell us what they want us to do. Our job is to understand the situation and say, here's what we advise you to do. ⁓ we're seeing is ⁓ of the old style consulting. ⁓ ⁓ and more helping people think, helping people be aware of what can be in their business, helping people reach out to various experts. You're going to see consultants used for a lot more than they used to be used for.
Correct. I can vouch for what you're saying. I had a conversation with a client where the kind of work they were trying to get done was something they could have done easily themselves by writing a few prompts. ⁓ I asked the partner there and I said, why are you looking at hiring me? Like, you know, this is something that you could do.
And we had a long standing relationship. He said, Utsav I'm not trained as a consultant. I know my business, but ⁓ maybe I'll. pay $20 for a Chat GPT license and do some prompts, but who knows am I asking the right questions or not? Who knows if I have covered all the bases and looking at all the possible lenses which you do.
So it's much easier for me to work with someone who knows how to apply the consulting toolkit and get the answers. So yeah, I've heard that. So bang on. But when you sort of, you know, in the book I have mentioned about different kinds of companies which are trying to come up.
Mm-hmm.
And there is no clear answer right now on what might succeed going forward. You might have solo consulting firms, might have a lot of firms that are top heavy with junior consultants being replaced by AI as an ops layer. You might have productized strategy platforms, expert networks, and so on and so forth. ⁓ firms are essentially innovating the consulting business model. So from your experience in the field of innovation, What advice would you give to these young companies which are coming up and trying to do something new?
Number one, understand that there is room for all of these players that you outlined in your book. All right? You really need to understand what is it that you're doing that's of value? How really are you helping?
What's the need that you're fulfilling? Also, whenever something disruptive is going on, it usually starts at the bottom of the market. Usually consultants don't want to go to the bottom of the market. They want to go straight to the top and be McKinsey walking into a big boardroom.
But there's less need for that. And if you're alone, how are you going to get up there? The real question is, as a consultant, how can you help people who couldn't afford the help? Or we're just... priced out of the market or could afford the help but they really aren't getting any value from it because they're overspending.
So, not only do you need to understand why are you ⁓ ⁓ ⁓ are you really helping with ⁓ And just as you ⁓ ask well, why do you need me?
Hmm. it becomes and you sort of hear a lot of interesting things from clients because suddenly they talk about a thing which you never thought of. You know, I've heard people talking about we have a rigid, you have a rigid model six week, eight weeks. I can't work under that pressure. The who say this is all great, but who will do the execution?
It's a long drawn execution. Who will help me to, you know, ⁓ transform behavior which might be required in my organization? So, yeah. ⁓
Yeah. Well, it, and you know, I'll also, so.
in those conversations.
the execution if in a small boutique firm you may not be able to do that but you could certainly give them guidance ⁓ and can connect them with people in your network who you know you can tap on and they your network. It used to be ⁓ that you'd a consulting firm for ⁓ the brand ⁓ but now seeing a lot of independents and tech firms. ⁓ Expertise, ⁓ still and it's augmented with AI. ⁓ Independence, ⁓ anybody can do that. Temp Workforce, ⁓ okay connected to the brand name is I need somebody to walk into the boardroom and say well ⁓ you thus and so firm said my strategy is good so ⁓ please my budget. ⁓ So again, what are the levers that you're pressing? What value are you providing?
And don't be greedy. Make sure you're providing a lot more value than you're actually keeping.
Yeah. Right. And when you mentioned about ideas which new companies could focus on and how they can get from interactions with clients, it reminded me of ⁓ your book, ⁓ famous business ⁓ fusions, because was flipping through it. the book, core idea is there are so many ideas which come from unlikely industries ⁓ like the Beak inspired bullet train and Apple and Corning and so on and so forth.
⁓ Thank you. ⁓ Mm-hmm.
So if you look at all these different ideas, very difficult for a new company to figure out how you can disrupt consulting industry, which is set in a particular way for decades. And do you focus on those clients which are maybe not traditional consumer of consulting services and would want that kind of support. ⁓ But ideas from the book ⁓ which can look at, any source of inspiration they can have to think about new ways to solve client problems in this space.
You know, if you look at all kinds of disruptions and fusions, you know, go looking, if you're trying to set up a new consulting firm, ⁓ look at other industries that have been disrupted ⁓ find out, ⁓ what's the model there? Can Uberize consulting? ⁓ or any other disruptor that you can name. How can you take the ideas from elsewhere and put them into your situation? Innovation itself, ⁓ know, ⁓ small ⁓ a pilot project, ⁓ yourself an MVP, and then ⁓ up once you really have something that's profitable, ⁓ cetera. ⁓ don't be afraid to ⁓ in with an inferior product.
Inferior products win. ⁓ That's how disruption starts at the bottom of the market, and then it eats its way up.
⁓ if I'm an aspiring student who wants to pursue MBA in consulting, what would you give me? Because I might come with all those questions on, I'm reading so many reports and consulting firms are firing people. ⁓ There companies coming. Is it the right career choice for me? And how I stay relevant?
So and maybe lead the next wave of consulting, you know, the new shape and form it takes. So what would you guide students ⁓ who are of pursuing MBA in consulting?
You know, I'd say the skills you learn in consulting are good for so many situations. So if you want to be an innovator and a change maker and ultimately a leader of a company, you need to know how to find needs, diagnose problems, put together projects and do all that stuff that consultants do. ⁓ You know, and keep the relationships going and build up into more and more work. How to lead team. All the consulting skills help you in traditional consulting firms. ⁓ Basically being a consultant within a big company. and as an entrepreneur whether you set up a consulting business or you set up another kind of a business.
It's the skills that matter.
Hmm, right. Yeah, no, absolutely. So if you and you know, we talk about we are talking about disruption and it takes a lot of time to disrupt these industries which are well ⁓ But if we fast forward and go into and look back at what happened, you know, in the ⁓ AI coming in, you know, very quickly we had different models of gene AI to agentic AI and God knows what comes after a few years. What do you think industry, the consulting industry would have learned from this change which has happened?
I think it should learn that there's room for many different models, many different players, and all of the SMEs who have been excluded over the years and yet are 70 % of everybody's economy, as well as all the startups, et cetera. All these folks need access to humans and or digital twins who can help them think through their situation and work something through, work on something, guide them with a consulting mindset. And make no mistake, AI and humans think ⁓ differently. ⁓ sort of thing that you just held up in the book ⁓ whereby the people I talk about in there ⁓ ⁓ different ideas ⁓ industries and technologies, nations, ⁓ cetera, et cetera. ⁓ sort of lateral thinking and lateral creativity ⁓ don't currently find in AI and I don't know ⁓ how soon you would be able to see it. ⁓ AI doesn't physically go into situations and talk to humans and diagnose what seems to be the problem. You can work with an AI that way.
But make no mistake, you're kind of still feeding it, even if it's asking you good questions. So yeah, there's value in tech, there's value in humans. Learn how to use them both.
Right. ⁓ last question that I have is what ideas from the book resonated most with you?
damn, a lot of it resonated with me. I think most importantly is that consulting itself is being ⁓ we need to be providing ⁓ guidance and help, ⁓ consulting, to those who've never had ⁓ to it before. ⁓ You know, there's so many people who go out into not-for-profit situations or situations where there are no organizations and there are no markets. And that's the kind of skill that you need as a consultant. Go where nobody has gone and create something new and good.
a wonderful thought. ⁓ you, Dr. CJ. That was really a fascinating conversation. What I take away is the key point around you have now an opportunity of a lifetime to go and find those new markets which were underserved, SMEs, there non-consumption of consulting ⁓ with solid solving to help everyone prosper and grow.
So for listeners, you can explore more about Dr. CJ's work at the Innovation and Entrepreneurship Center at SP Jain School of Management ⁓ and find related ideas in my upcoming book, Alt-Consulting. Doctor, thank you once again for joining me today.
Thank you. And by the way, it's a terrific book. Everybody interested in consulting should read this book.
Thank you. Thank you so much.
Thank you.
